[spoonitnow strategy] Applications and Limitations of the Alpha Value

The alpha value is an important shortcut that's simple and pretty. It's also completely abused by a lot of players who aren't aware of its limitations.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/a...ha-value-17369

Discuss.

Can I just double check something with this calculation. I was never fully sure when it could and could not be used, so I avoided it altogether.

Would this be correct;

Bet 500, all-in raise to 2,000. Bet/(bet+pot) = 500/3,000 = ~17% equity needed.

Correct?

Originally Posted by Cobra_1878

Can I just double check something with this calculation. I was never fully sure when it could and could not be used, so I avoided it altogether.

Would this be correct;

Bet 500, all-in raise to 2,000. Bet/(bet+pot) = 500/3,000 = ~17% equity needed.

Correct?

I'm assuming you are trying to figure out the needed equity to call the $2,000 shove? If so, then in this instance, the 'bet' is the amount you must call. So after betting 500, and being shoved on for $2k total, you must call an additional 1500. So bet = 1500. The pot at the time would be your 500 + villains 2k or $2,500. So the formula comes out to:

1500 / (2500 + 1500)
1500 / 4000
0.375

Another way of looking at it to figure out equity needed for a call would be (amount to call) / (total pot after call).

Originally Posted by Stacks

I'm assuming you are trying to figure out the needed equity to call the $2,000 shove? If so, then in this instance, the 'bet' is the amount you must call. So after betting 500, and being shoved on for $2k total, you must call an additional 1500. So bet = 1500. The pot at the time would be your 500 + villains 2k or $2,500. So the formula comes out to:

1500 / (2500 + 1500)
1500 / 4000
0.375

Another way of looking at it to figure out equity needed for a call would be (amount to call) / (total pot after call).

LOL, couldn't have been further off, no wonder I avoid the Maths side of poker. Thanks for the correction and post.

most people find it hard at first to get their head around potsize/betsize with this equation, especially when hero is raising a bet. it becomes a lot easier and quicker with practice.

I picked this topic this week because so many people know that it can be used for something, but they don't know exactly how to use it. This creates a lot of confusion and wasted effort, so I wanted to clear all of that up since it's so common before we get into more fun topics in the upcoming weeks.

This is an alternate way of talking about pot odds?

Originally Posted by jackvance

This is an alternate way of talking about pot odds?

Not really.

It's just a shortcut that can be quite helpful in a few situations. Such as working out the % of your range you need to fold to be exploitable by a bluff.

In a way, it's applicable to all gambling situations, although it doesn't always look exactly the same. It's basically a way to quantify risk vs. reward to determine if something is "expected" to be profitable. I mean "expected" in the mathematical sense of probability theory and statistical analysis.

It's basically ( total risk ) / ( total reward ) = alpha.

If alpha is less than the "win frequency" or "equity", then a gamble has a positive expectation value; it is +EV.

Spoonitnow is applying this fundamental principle to the game of poker. He understands this concept thoroughly, and I consider him an expert on the subject (for what a monkey's opinion is worth).

I ask because I've been using this since I started playing poker, because I used to calculate these odds on paper for a while to get used to it. And i started doing that after learning about pot odds. I didn't know it is now being called alpha.

It's only called alpha to give it a name. Nothing more than an arbitrary name to make reference to it quicker and easier.

Originally Posted by MadMojoMonkey

It's only called alpha to give it a name. Nothing more than an arbitrary name to make reference to it quicker and easier.

Aren't all names arbitrary?

Don't you know?

Bumping just to make sure I'm doing this shit correctly.


BTN and SB are pretty nitty, tiny sample size though.
BB is unknown.

$0.02/$0.05 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
5 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Player4 ($4.60) 92bb
CO ImSavy ($5.62) 112bb
BTN Player6 ($2.39) 48bb
SB Player1 ($5.09) 102bb
BB Player2 ($1.69) 34bb

Pre-Flop: ($0.07, 5 players) ImSavy is CO
1 fold, ImSavy raises to $0.15, 2 folds, Player2 calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.32, 2 players)
Player2 bets $1.54,

To avoid being exploitable by a bluff I need to be folding less than 1.54/(15.4+0.32) = 82.80% of my range?

So if my range is something like this (682 hands)



I have to be calling with at least 116 combinations of hands?

edit - woops deleted the pic by accident, range is unimportant though, just assume I'm opening with 682 hands and calling his shove with at least 116 to avoid being exploitable.